American Group Psychotherapy Association - AGPA
American Group Psychotherapy Association - AGPA
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Social Skills Groups in UCCs: Panel Discussion
Discussion panel hosted by the College Counseling and Other Educational Setting SIG. Panelists share their experiences leading groups that teach students social skills, share their group structure and curriculum, and discuss challenges and success tips.
Panelists:
Ayanna Towers, PsyD
Psychologist, Acting Assistant Director of Clinical Training at Rutgers The State University of New Jersey
Hilary Son, PsyD
Psychologist, Clinical Director at University of Nevada, Reno
R. Andrew Facemire, PsyD
Resident in Psychology at Virginia Tech
Moderator:
Kseniya Zhuzha, PhD, CPG
Psychologist, Group Coordinator at University of Nevada, Reno
Air date: 5/15/2024
Переглядів: 56

Відео

Supervising Trainee Co-Leaders: Panel Discussion
Переглядів 177Рік тому
Discussion panel hosted by the College Counseling and Other Educational Setting SIG. Panelists will share their approaches to supervising trainees co-leading group with each other. They will discuss structure, supervision, and benefits and challenges of this model. Panelists: Shemika Brooks, PsyD, CGP, AGPA-F, Wendy Gonzalez-Canal, PhD, David Panzer, PsyD, CGP Air date: 2/06/2023
Process Observers in UCC Groups Panel Discussion
Переглядів 2672 роки тому
Process Observers in UCC Groups: Panel Discussion Discussion panel hosted by the College Counseling and Other Educational Setting SIG. Panelists talk about different formats of having process observers in groups and discuss the process observer model from the training perspective. Panelists: Jason Boothe, Ph.D., Joeleen Cooper-Bhatia, PhD, CGP, Leslie Veach, M.S., NCC, LCMHCS, CGP Air date: 5/0...
AGPA Awarded Synergy Award 2021 for Excellence in Educational Programming
Переглядів 712 роки тому
On Friday, October 29, Chief Executive Officer Angela Stephens accepted the 2021 Synergy Award for Excellence in Educational Programming on behalf of the American Group Psychotherapy Association (AGPA) at the New York Society of Association Executive's (NYSAE) Synergy Awards breakfast. We are honored to be recognized as an organization among some of the New York tri-state area’s best in the non...
College Counseling Special Interest Group (SIG): Drop In Groups at UCCs
Переглядів 2662 роки тому
Discussion panel hosted by the College Counseling and Other Educational Settings SIG. Panelists talk about drop-in groups offered at their university counseling centers, how they recruit participants, and how they navigate challenges unique to this group format. Panelists: Ben de Boer, PsyD, CGP, Wendy Gonzalez-Canal, PhD, and Ellie Shuo Jin, PhD. Air date: 9/13/2021
The Emotional Impact of Racism and Hate (Presented by WCHRC and AGPA)
Переглядів 1862 роки тому
The Emotional Impact of Racism and Hate (Presented by WCHRC and AGPA)
Group Foundation Humanitarian Award Presentation - AGPA Membership Community Meeting 2021
Переглядів 272 роки тому
Group Foundation Humanitarian Award Presentation - AGPA Membership Community Meeting 2021
Group Foundation Social Responsibility Awards Presentation - AGPA Membership Community Meeting 2021
Переглядів 682 роки тому
Group Foundation Social Responsibility Awards Presentation - AGPA Membership Community Meeting 2021
Chair Tony Sheppard Interviews New IBCGP Members
Переглядів 1153 роки тому
The International Board for Certification of Group Psychotherapists (IBCGP) Chair Tony Sheppard, PsyD, CGP, FAGPA speaks with new Board Members about the importance of certifying as a group psychotherapist (CGP). The CGP sets you apart as a specialist in group with advanced training and continuing education that keeps you current on new developments and best practices in the field. The IBCGP su...
Group Training and Supervision SIG Interviews Psychiatric Residents
Переглядів 3363 роки тому
The Group Training and Supervision Special Interest Group (SIG) held a virtual event in January 2020 over Zoom in which members interviewed psychiatric residents who are currently participating in process training groups. The purpose of the event was to learn about their experience in the groups and understand its value in their training. Bill Watson, Dale Godby, and Martha Gilmore moderated.
AGPA President Dr. Molyn Leszcz interviews Dr. Zindel Segal
Переглядів 3733 роки тому
Zindel Segal, PhD, is the founder of Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy (MBCT) and is a Professor of Psychology at the University of Toronto in Ontario, Canada. Dr. Segal is one of the AGPA Connect 2021 Special Institute speakers. His presentation, "Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy: Distinct and Overlapping Elements of Group Delivery of Mindfulness Meditation," will be an interactive learni...
IBCGP Chairman Dr. Tony Sheppard Interviews Mendel Horowitz, MS, CGP
Переглядів 1113 роки тому
Dr. Sheppard and Dr. Horowitz discuss getting certified as a group psychotherapist (CGP), what it means and why it matters. Dr. Horowitz is a group therapist in Israel who runs groups for men.
Playback Theatre Teaser
Переглядів 5363 роки тому
The Group Foundation Presents Playback Theatre - Recipient of the Foundation Aaron Stein Award Sunday, December 6, 2020, 1:00 - 3:00 PM (Eastern) Join us for a special afternoon of virtual Playback Theatre, an interactive theatre form in which audience members tell stories from their lives and professional actors bring the stories to life on stage. Playback is entertaining as well as redemptive...
Addressing Diversity in Process Groups with University Students
Переглядів 1,4 тис.3 роки тому
Webinar by AGPA College Counseling and Other Educational Settings Special Interest Group (SIG) recorded on October 25th, 2020. Presenters: Nathasha Hahn, PhD, Karen Cone-Uemura, PhD, CGP, and Michele Ribeiro, EdD, ABPP, CGP, FAGPA.
IBCGP New Board Member Orientation
Переглядів 603 роки тому
Dr. Tony Sheppard, Chairman of the International Board for Certification of Group Psychotherapists, leads an orientation for new members of the IBCGP.
AGPA President Dr. Molyn Leszcz on the Importance of Group Psychotherapy
Переглядів 9504 роки тому
AGPA President Dr. Molyn Leszcz on the Importance of Group Psychotherapy
Interview: Dr. J. Scott Rutan, 2020 Harold S Bernard Group Psychotherapy Training Award
Переглядів 4784 роки тому
Interview: Dr. J. Scott Rutan, 2020 Harold S Bernard Group Psychotherapy Training Award
Interview: New AGPA Board Member Shunda McGahee, MD, CGP
Переглядів 3244 роки тому
Interview: New AGPA Board Member Shunda McGahee, MD, CGP
Rudy Lucas & Christine Schmidt, Co-Chairs, Eastern GPS Work Group for Racial Equity
Переглядів 1474 роки тому
Rudy Lucas & Christine Schmidt, Co-Chairs, Eastern GPS Work Group for Racial Equity
How Social Media Is Changing Social Networks, Group Dynamics, Democracies, & Gen Z -Jonathan Haidt
Переглядів 33 тис.4 роки тому
How Social Media Is Changing Social Networks, Group Dynamics, Democracies, & Gen Z -Jonathan Haidt
2020 Mitchell Hochberg Public Education Event with Andrew Solomon, Director of "Far from the Tree"
Переглядів 1574 роки тому
2020 Mitchell Hochberg Public Education Event with Andrew Solomon, Director of "Far from the Tree"
All I Really Need to Know in Life, I Learned in Group - Molyn Leszcz, MD, FRCPC, CGP, DFAGPA
Переглядів 4914 роки тому
All I Really Need to Know in Life, I Learned in Group - Molyn Leszcz, MD, FRCPC, CGP, DFAGPA
The Power of Visual Images to Evoke Personal and Social Themes - Morris Nitsun (Part 1-Presentation)
Переглядів 8484 роки тому
The Power of Visual Images to Evoke Personal and Social Themes - Morris Nitsun (Part 1-Presentation)
The Power of Visual Images to Evoke Personal and Social Themes - Morris Nitsun (Part 2-Discussion)
Переглядів 5564 роки тому
The Power of Visual Images to Evoke Personal and Social Themes - Morris Nitsun (Part 2-Discussion)
Stephen Wolfert, Founder of DE-CRUIT Accepts the 2020 Aaron Stein Memorial Award
Переглядів 444 роки тому
Stephen Wolfert, Founder of DE-CRUIT Accepts the 2020 Aaron Stein Memorial Award
Sean Mayberry Accepts the 2020 Humanitarian Award on behalf of StrongMinds
Переглядів 1804 роки тому
Sean Mayberry Accepts the 2020 Humanitarian Award on behalf of StrongMinds
2020 Group Foundation Social Responsibility Award to Eastern GPS Work Group for Racial Equity
Переглядів 794 роки тому
2020 Group Foundation Social Responsibility Award to Eastern GPS Work Group for Racial Equity
Robert Klein, Ph.D., ABPP, CGP, DLFAGPA - 2020 Group Foundation Social Responsibility Award
Переглядів 2374 роки тому
Robert Klein, Ph.D., ABPP, CGP, DLFAGPA - 2020 Group Foundation Social Responsibility Award
AGPA Distinguished Fellowship Awarded to Nina Brown, EdD, LPC, NCC, FAGPA
Переглядів 534 роки тому
AGPA Distinguished Fellowship Awarded to Nina Brown, EdD, LPC, NCC, FAGPA
A Message of Gratitude from AGPA Connect 2020 Scholarship Recipients
Переглядів 3144 роки тому
A Message of Gratitude from AGPA Connect 2020 Scholarship Recipients

КОМЕНТАРІ

  • @shioma
    @shioma 25 днів тому

    18:13

  • @kimberlys4728
    @kimberlys4728 Місяць тому

    Thank you Dr Jennifer Freyd for your research and voice! This topic is very important and evermore relevant. We can all benefit from freely discussing and understanding Betrayal Trauma, Betrayal Blindness, Instructional Courage and what we can do about it. 🔑 👏🏼

  • @crazycrickeeet1964
    @crazycrickeeet1964 Місяць тому

    A neurosis is a perpetual motion machine.

  • @katwestbrook846
    @katwestbrook846 2 місяці тому

    The k you for this video! I am going to be certified as a CTRC - working as a trauma recovery coach- and I'm getting ready for my ethics exam. I came across your name while doing some research on countertransference. You are my new hero- I have been working with female trauma survivors up until now, and have teaching experience with young children, but when I heard you say that your organization helps people at the start of what will undoubtedly develop from incident to a trauma, I was so inspired. I really would love tone a part of that.

  • @theotherway1639
    @theotherway1639 2 місяці тому

    I went a few months without social media and it felt like giving my brain a clean bath. Felt great afterwards, and disgusted that we are letting our children glue their eyes and ears to their phones, where random people are fighting for their attention. The mindfulness workbook called 30 Days Without Social Media by Harper Daniels gores great with Jonatha's book.

  • @sharu5578
    @sharu5578 5 місяців тому

    He explains it in such a simple way. Love hearing him

  • @fashionality1
    @fashionality1 7 місяців тому

    Well we know Trump wasn’t

  • @Ejsloane
    @Ejsloane 7 місяців тому

    I’m in a group processing class at my college, obtaining my associates in addiction and mental health services. My professor is wonderful- he references Dr. Rutan all the time. Thanks for the upload

  • @taewankim9575
    @taewankim9575 8 місяців тому

    I have read the 5th version of group psychotherapy. I'm so glad to hear from one of the authors. What he is presenting is so true and assuaring. I wish I could attend his group sometime.

  • @JOHN----DOE
    @JOHN----DOE 10 місяців тому

    Someday people will view social media like cocaine--initially thought to be a wonder drug, universally abused, and too late regulated as a massive social ill. And this man will get a great deal of the credit. Not only is he brilliant; like John McWhorter, he has the assertive but non-confrontational personality that makes his message easier for the reluctant to accept. Thank you!

  • @snoidburger
    @snoidburger 10 місяців тому

    Excellent interview. Judith Coche is superb.

  • @recipehacker9752
    @recipehacker9752 Рік тому

    That presenter😂

  • @s.z3717
    @s.z3717 Рік тому

    Ye khaandaan hee intellectuals aur scholars ka hai..🙏🙏

  • @claireh.7605
    @claireh.7605 Рік тому

    Please look at the expression on this provider's face - does it look like a healthy person's facial expression? People's feelings and thoughts get imprinted on their face. In this woman's eyes and mouth, you see something unusual. Their facial expression reminds me of my psychiatric patients and ones anti-psychotic meds. Why are they wearing rings on both of their hands? Does this look and act like a healthy person? I have my doubts. It might be Bell's Palsy, but I think this is another odd person with issues. AGPA seems to be like a cesspool of weirdos from the cult like problematic Boston Institute of Psychoptherapy.

  • @craiglilly3657
    @craiglilly3657 Рік тому

    Awesome! I will share this widely.

  • @luciansunset1
    @luciansunset1 Рік тому

    Enjoyed this. Yalom is brilliant and funny

  • @nunontherunnumberone
    @nunontherunnumberone Рік тому

    If there is decision fatigue, could there be such a thing as 'betrayal fatigue'? Because I've been calling-out even the most mundane discrepancies in agreements.

    • @nunontherunnumberone
      @nunontherunnumberone Рік тому

      I now find them glaring, and impossible to ignore. I'm coming out of what has probably been the lowest part of my life: realizing my mother was aware of my father's sexual abuse all along, and have been experiencing rage for the first time in my 43 years. I just want to keep people safe and would really love to be able to forgive.

    • @nunontherunnumberone
      @nunontherunnumberone Рік тому

      My father taught English literature at Concordia university, so might even have contributed to institutional betrayal.

    • @nunontherunnumberone
      @nunontherunnumberone Рік тому

      I'm currently in a double-bind with my mother, whom I confronted this summer when a memory involving her surfaced, and she continues with our status quo relationship even though I told her we need to go to therapy or she needs to leave me alone. I really don't know what to do but ignore her.

    • @nunontherunnumberone
      @nunontherunnumberone Рік тому

      Her attention has become quite unwelcome.

    • @nunontherunnumberone
      @nunontherunnumberone Рік тому

      And I don't know how to make it better.

  • @claireh.7605
    @claireh.7605 Рік тому

    The guy talks and presents himself in a self-biased and self-serving manner, and what he is teaching people is 'cringe' and brainwashing. Just ask yourself and use common here - why do you need this? Why do you need to do X or Y - it's like being socialized into being a therapy-cult while playing to the self-biased narcissism and brainwashing of student therapists.

  • @dannythach624
    @dannythach624 Рік тому

    Karen wears a White Dress Shirt and Light Blue Jeans with Barefoot.

  • @ivanasimic2072
    @ivanasimic2072 Рік тому

    DARVO...Who would say this? So called "pastor" and "church"/cult I deal with here in Croatia Europe. Pure evil

  • @gajendra1987
    @gajendra1987 Рік тому

    Loved every word of this session!

  • @saminaali2705
    @saminaali2705 Рік тому

    True intellectual

  • @claireh.7605
    @claireh.7605 Рік тому

    So many self serving, upselling assumptions in the title - highly unscientific. Research shows 30% harm from among the patients. And.. the importance for what? It's not like a president would upsell and market their own organization, would they.. and that would be like.. unethical from a science perspective wouldn't it..? Another observation - a lot of the therapist profiles have odd weird people with weird faces, weird facial hair like this guy, odd facial expressions showing like they are not you know the solid and stable median of the population with regard to personality, which puts into question if one should take them as the voice of reason, and if they even can be.

  • @sheilaboland6285
    @sheilaboland6285 Рік тому

    Ask Jesus Christ to come into your heart!

  • @sheilaboland6285
    @sheilaboland6285 Рік тому

    Make Jesus Christ your personal Lord and Savior then you will find freedom!

  • @claireh.7605
    @claireh.7605 Рік тому

    My grandmother has been going to a great one of a kind therapy group taught by the best therapist who specializes in helping people with anger management through group psychotherapy, or what I call 'groups.' People get together and help each other. The therapist is brilliant and uncovers things about life gradually and you will keep learning things for years until you reach 'UNLOCKED HUMAN' level. Life becomes clear then and marriage, job and ability to conversate with anybody and hold your own weight, observe the other person, and 'navigate' any 1:1 interaction. Usually marriage, kids and job follows, a better kind of sex too, and an ability to date hot people you want. You also use your time better. The people in the group are the best people because they take the time to come and learn this in a group, not alone. However, we also discuss what is wrong with them and why are they still there since all other original members have gotten married and move along in their career onto better things. The group is the perfect place to work on anything you need. However, it is also just a day care for lonely adults who have no other place to go. But really, it is a sort of Matrix where 5-10 bodies are hooked up to the therapist through pipes, with the little weekly payments supporting the underpaid but overly credentialed group therapist's mortgage, car, food, clothing, travel and retirement payments. This system best remain for years and decades and not be disturbed until the therapist's retirement and/or when one of the patients begins to get disconnected from the Matrix and notice inconsistencies, hypocrisy, falseness, uselessness, harm, and unethical things about the group and therapist who controls it. Those people are pressured to stop criticizing the therapist by the discussion of what is wrong with them, of which the therapist always has a bag full of insights about everyone's personal character, behavior and psychological faults. Any criticism of the therapist will hit a wall and then an attack on the non-group think person will follow, the person will either stop criticizing the therapist (the discussion will go nowhere) or be made unwelcome in the group, once the person leaves, the therapist will discredit the person and make an alternative dishonest explanation of why that person left that has to do with that person being lazy, avoidant, missing out, not understanding, or crazy or being overwhelmed by all the 'work' and 'openness' in the group and it will be something about the person's mother or father, not the unethical abusive dishonest useless behavior of the therapist. The group will be marketed as the perfect place to work on any issues, those who quit will doubt themselves so much and not understand what they encountered that they won't even leave negative reviews to warn others. The group therapists will teach other this method to the next generation of group therapists who want to make modest living from vulnerable dependent people.

  • @claireh.7605
    @claireh.7605 Рік тому

    Promises, promises and essentially a sales pitch by a guy who looks disheveled and lacks facial expressions, but uses a rhythmic almost hypnotizing voice to gain your trust and convince you to serve him in one of his groups.. a lot of these AGPA members teach other the hustle - how to attract and retain people, and so they use things like this to do it. It's a worked out system with sale pitches and ways to get people to stay. Obviously, the promises are self serving in nature for the provider, and the fact that many of the group leaders are in it to manipulate and use people in the groups they create and not just to benefit them. Needless to say, AGPA seems to be full of manipulators and practicing with ethics is not their strong point.

  • @rosecasey6177
    @rosecasey6177 Рік тому

    Irvin Yalom, MD, is awesome and an inspiration. So very true and love the insight! Thank you!

  • @williammaldonado6132
    @williammaldonado6132 Рік тому

    💡 let there be light ✨️

  • @claireh.7605
    @claireh.7605 Рік тому

    what's up with these female therapists' lower part of the face having unhappy downward lines..

  • @claireh.7605
    @claireh.7605 Рік тому

    lots of harms and lots os psychopaths and cult leaders go into group therapy to have patients serve their needs - pray on vulnerable people; notice how this woman does a salespitch and purposely fails to educate about harm from therapy in 30% of cases as shown in research

  • @claireh.7605
    @claireh.7605 Рік тому

    Is it even ethical for a therapist to do a sales pitch without educating about the research evidenced and case reported harm from group therapy and the downsides? Nooope. Red flag! Does the AGPA organization police the quality of its supposed members and kick out those who aren't up to their quality standard? Nooope, they don't kick anyone out unless that person gets de-licensed by DPH. Okay.. so we are in the room. Look at this woman's face? Does it look like a normal face or slightly crazy person's face? Look at her wide open eyes and the lines around her mouth - what kind of personality type and potential personal psych issues does therapist have just judging based on that? You'd say I am attacking this person, but yet I am doing what she encourages in the group - 'giving feedback.' You see how giving feedback can be inappropriate and harmful, right? So it can be just so in group. And here lies the scheme.. it's called trauma bonding. With all this shame discussion and giving feedback, the person gets traumatized especially in a group setting, but the therapist starting sweet talking and promising things and saying how she recommend group therapy always.. and this cycle of first charmed and getting people to drop down their guard and then traumatizing them with the 'group feedback' makes the person convert into an obedient regular client 'trauma bonded' and dependent on their therapist. Not true? Prove me wrong. Oh wait.. this therapist expects people to just trust her because she has letters next to her name and is an office and is a member of an organization that does not kick anybody out for poor quality.. I ask this therapist how much of her own pattern does she understand - her own words here. And before you judge me, this a laboratory here like she says, and it is only that I want the pattern that the AGPA therapists and many other therapists use to change to be more.. ethical. Anyway. Hope this helps! Just trying to illustrate the manipulations, hypocrisy, and pitfalls here as well unethical practices. Search for reviews for Cecil Rice and James P Leone - the reviews will help you make sense of what these sketchy AGPA members and sketchy Boston Institute of Psychotherapy grads the kind of scam they run..

  • @yashkavthekar8962
    @yashkavthekar8962 Рік тому

    I listen to this video every day ❤️

  • @laika5757
    @laika5757 Рік тому

    Allah revealed this to me: "Islam is the fastest imploding religion in the world because more and more Muslims are realising that Mohammad and others (breakdown below) fabricated the Quran to persue their own personal agendas. Islam is nothing but 7th century Arabic tribalism. Muslims are much better and bigger than this supremacist ideology. I love all Muslims as people, but dislike the Supremacist Quranic ideology they follow." 1000% support to all Ex Muslims from 7 billion of us (includes many Muslims)...Lovers of Truth. Breakdown of Quranic inputs as revealed to me by Allah... 10% Mohammad 30% Plagerised from Christian, Jewish and pagan texts. 59% Added on after Mohammad. 1% Eaten by a goat. 0% Allah.

  • @Melody-uv5jz
    @Melody-uv5jz Рік тому

    In the Islamic world only 19% Muslims of the world are Arabs. 81% of Muslims are not Arabs. However, because the Quran is written in Arabic, because the holiest sites of Islam are in Saudi Arabia, and because by God they have lot of money and oil they do not regard themselves and many Muslims do no regard Arabs as a Minority Muslims.

  • @rachnasethi6303
    @rachnasethi6303 Рік тому

    The Supreme Court of India is hearing a special petition - to address the status of minority communities - statewise instead of at national level. Hearing to this lecture by Dr Salman Akhtar, should provide everyone, including Honorable Judges, an interesting take on the subject

  • @shabana9923
    @shabana9923 Рік тому

    Any patient here? God bless the patients. I hope nobody ever need a therapist; and world become so kind to each other.

  • @VijayParekhMumbai-India
    @VijayParekhMumbai-India Рік тому

    Very well spoken 👌& worth hearing again. don't SEE him, don't go to his NAME, don't analyse HIM (just listen & internalize)

    • @onedirectionlover08
      @onedirectionlover08 3 місяці тому

      “Don’t go to his name, don’t analyse him” can you explain what do you mean?

    • @VijayParekhMumbai-India
      @VijayParekhMumbai-India 3 місяці тому

      It means that *what he says is more important than who he is*. What Dr. Salman Akhtar is saying is very important.

  • @deepachaudhury4336
    @deepachaudhury4336 Рік тому

    Is he not projecting his own sense of judging another person on the guy in the bar? The man may have asked out of simple curiosity but Mr Akhtar thought in terms of minority and majority which is actually Mr Akhtar ‘s way of thinking about dividing in terms of minority and majority

    • @tamarix25
      @tamarix25 Рік тому

      Then you got trapped what he wanted you to be in. Minorities always have in pre conscious mind about their status. That's why he assumed that guy's questions otherwise.

    • @razahasnain9326
      @razahasnain9326 11 місяців тому

      U clearly didn't get it

  • @VijayParekhMumbai-India
    @VijayParekhMumbai-India Рік тому

    12:05 most clear definition(s) of MINORITY 17:42 minority status even after many generations over hundreds years are still minority

  • @005xxx3
    @005xxx3 Рік тому

    Just watch his lallantop interview was wonderful

  • @kamalnijhawan9592
    @kamalnijhawan9592 Рік тому

    Excellent

  • @AmitKumar-vx4hp
    @AmitKumar-vx4hp Рік тому

    Amazing! Can't like the speech enough..

  • @salesmantrajobwala573
    @salesmantrajobwala573 2 роки тому

    Great 👊

  • @AlmaPasalic-rg8yt
    @AlmaPasalic-rg8yt 2 роки тому

    Moved by the tribute to the late Carl Rogers.

  • @dominick8656
    @dominick8656 2 роки тому

    Very moving ending.

  • @stevebrennan2873
    @stevebrennan2873 2 роки тому

    Phils book "Addiction as an Attachment Disorder"is outstanding-gives lucid context as to the deep human need for appropriate and healthy connection and safety

  • @bzzwiebel963
    @bzzwiebel963 2 роки тому

    Irv you are the only psychiatrist who makes sense!!!!